AR battle zero deep dive- barrel length

It's like this man read every forum argument and said "Hold my beer"... Love it!

I really hope you stick with this. You'll probably never have 3 mil subscribers because the masses demand goofy skits and shit getting blown up. However, there is a good sized group of us who appreciate informative and insightful content. Thanks for the hard work.

You deserve a million subscribers. The information he give is very well explained and laid out amazingly!! Thank you

Way back when I was in the army we used a 25/300 meter zero for M16A1s. So 300 meters was our point blank range where the bullet was supposed to stay within a 6" elevation change if I recall correctly. The maximum effective range for the rifle was supposed to be 460 meters, but you would have to guess your elevation hold at that distance since there was no way to dial it in for varying distances. A person that far away looks like they're less than half the width of your front sight post, which makes aiming hard enough already. A colonel once asked me if it a was characteristic of the M16 for bullet to rise like that. I guess he thought it defied gravity for the first 25 meters, until I told him the bullet starts to drop immediately upon exiting the barrel. I held my hands up at 2 different angles and told him, your line of sight is horizontal like this, but your barrel is actually pointed up like this. We had to treat some of our "superiors" like children, and couldn't use big words either. Even with this gentleman who was only one rank below a general (for any civilians who don't know).

The comparison did surprise me in contrasting the pressure distance between .223 and 5.56 ammo using overall distance between groups @300yds. Understandable, the 5.56 has more pressure, but for the group to be almost 4moa gap is bananas!!!! Great work and love the content!

I love this channel! No bs, just shooting, data and solutions.
Carry on!

Excellent video as usual. Great information especially about the difference between 5.56 and .223. You are very well spoken and present your data clearly and concisely. Good job

When figuring out BZO (Battle Zero Offset), you need to consider your rifle’s capability and practical accuracy. Next, think about what you plan on engaging. For a general-purpose rifle (GPR), you might only need to hit a 10-inch circle. If you’re aiming for more precision, like a reduced or partially covered target (say, face-sized or 6 inches), you’ll need to adjust accordingly. Many ballistic apps allow you to input a “vital size,” which accounts for not only the height above bore but also the maximum ordinate (max ord)-the highest point the bullet travels above the line of sight-and the subsequent drop. This will help you determine your maximum point-blank range (MPBR).
If you’re planning on shooting beyond the typical “battle sight range” (0 to 300 meters), you’ll want a reticle that supports standardized drops, such as MOA or MIL. Beyond that, you’ll need to learn and practice your holds for consistent precision.
For me personally, even on precision-oriented 5.56 rifles, I prefer a BZO at 50 yards. Paired with a 14.5” barrel and 77-grain ammunition, this setup keeps me within a 6-inch circle out to roughly 250 meters. The main difference between using a 36-yard zero and a 50-yard zero is in the bullet’s arc. With a 36-yard zero, the max ordinate can reach 3 to 4 inches at 150 meters, resulting in a steeper drop-off at longer ranges. A 50-yard zero, on the other hand, only uses about 2 inches of max ordinate at 150 meters, providing a flatter trajectory.
If I were using a 36-yard zero and aiming at an 8-inch vital, the bullet would rise to 4 inches at 150 meters and drop off by 300. This could cause issues at closer distances-for example, if you held center on a small target like a groundhog at 150 meters, you might overshoot. For me, the increased error at closer ranges isn’t worth the trade-off.
In summary, excellent work figuring out your BZO. And for all you 5.56 shooters out there: don’t let long-range twats tell you that ballistics don’t matter. They always do.

Some misconceptions need to be cleared up: the 36/300 zero is what the USMC uses/used with 20" M16A4s w/62gr M855 (M855A1 might work too since it's supposed to be ballistically matched). That's the only barrel/load combination that will come close to 300 after the 36 yd preliminary zero. And the zero at 36 is just that, preliminary. The zero HAS TO BE CONFIRMED @ 300. The USMC Rifle Marksmanship manual specifically says that a rifle with only a 36 yd preliminary zero is absolutely not to be used for training or combat. It just just too close for slight POI errors to become apparent. This also applies to 50/200 zeros. You have to confirm it at 200

I’m only 4 minutes in…. I just want to say I really like the way you are laying out the intro to these videos. Your way of explaining and presenting the information you have for us, is being done in a manner that is simple, concise, and practical. It’s not only easily understood but lends itself to being used in the field for ourselves so that we may conserve valuable ammunition and waste less time figuring out things for ourselves! Keep up the good work my friend. And most of all , thanks!

Really surprised at the drop difference in both barrel length and 223 vs 556. Would like to see 13.7 vs 16 and 16 vs 18 to see if same difference in drop with 2” difference. Great content and I’m sure your channel will keep growing

This presentation format has Paul Harrell energy (the best possible guntube compliment imo)

Great videos, no nonsense or opinions, just facts. Interesting the difference in the 556 out of a shorter barrel. It would be interesting to see a similar study with different 300 BLK barrel lengths

I literally just purchased a 14.5” barrel chambered in 5.56. Thank you for your efforts! This is very helpful data. I’d love to see real world data battle zero’s in 16” as well if you haven’t already. Great channel brother! Keep it up!

Man you are one of the few I can watch your videos all the way through. Keep up the good work

I admit to laughing at myself over this video. My employer gave me a CAR-15 and sent me on an urgent real world mission with a plane full of folks. There was no time to zero - that’s the second time that happened - but I got to shoot it when I got back. It was good at 100, okay at 150 and lost at 200. I was shooting iron sights. So your video was very informative, especially since I’m building my own XM-177E2 clone.
Yep, liked and subscribed.
Here is food for thought. Reshoot this with 55 grain ball and G.I. green tip. Yes, you made your ballistic point just fine. I suspect there are more folks shooting standard ammo than 77 grain, and knowing where G.I. ammo prints could be helpful to a lot of people.
You did a fine job in my opinion, though I’d have preferred a calmer day. Well done. Very well done.

I guess that puts to rest the myth that .223 and 5.56 are the same thing. You make very informative videos. Thanks for going through the troubles of creating them.

Something new for you to cover that has not been addressed by other guntubers; set a rifle up with a quality scope and piggyback red dot. Compare the diffence in impact from using each of the host's aiming systems. Bonus...repeat with an offset red dot.
Everyone wants an "ultimate" setup. Few understand the differences.
Best of luck,
Phil

You dont miss with the quality content. Keep it coming my man👍🏾

Thanks so much for these videos! Love the deep dive and nuances of different components!

Buddy, this is a absolutely absolutely wonderful idea. This series is exactly what people need to see. Thank you.

One of the best gun content creators out there💯

Awesome info bud. These battle zero videos are very useful and and always give interesting and actionable results. It was very interesting how the 14in was way more accurate than the 11in with the 223 ammo, but the groups for the 11in tightened up a lot when you switched to 5.56. Over the years I’ve migrated away from the short barrel 5.56’s though I used to love them. These days if I want to rock a short barrel I’ll go with 300 blackout, 277 wolverine, or sometimes even a 12.5 in 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel loses speed for sure with the short barrel but the 123gr pills still rock a target out to 600 yards or so.

Man you answer all my unanswered questions I think you have the easiest listening most informational channel around.

Really underrated channel. Keep up the good work!!

Muh favorite mountain man

Appreciate ur unique approach at proving out zero's. I like how u include differences in not only barrel lengths but also with various optic mount heights. Keeep up the good work

I love what this channel is all about. My main rifles are 14.5 and 11.5. So this content is VERY instrumental in my thought process of how I run my rifles. I have a 36 yard zero on my home defense (10.5) rifle because I know if have to use it, it will be up close or less than 100 Yards. With your testing now I know to stay in my lane with short distances. LOL. Keep Up the good work.

That cardboard drawing at 2:30 is high tech!

This is cool i really like my 11.5

Phenomenal video! This is something I’ve often speculated about but never cared to actually test it…nobody goes past the theoretical results in the “zero theory” videos. Occasionally you see them yes one rifle but NEVER see people talking about difference between different barrel lengths..love it

Precisely the content I was looking for!🙌

I love your videos. They are so well put together and gives me real data

Thank you for all of your hard work you deserve a ton of credit! You are very easy to follow and I forward your videos to my newer shooting friends so they can catch up. Awesome Contant!

Great information here. I am glad that I went with a longer barrel rifle (16") on my PWS.

Such good data and CLEAR explanations. Even going through the results in detail and the photo overlays are super helpful!! Keep up the great work and looking forward to this series. I’m kitting out this exact combo of an 11.5 BCM and 14.5 URGI with suppressors so this is really exciting stuff.

Most accurate and reliable shooting information I've ever seen on RUclips! For long distance shooting.....👍

Those are bigger drops than I had expected. This helps greatly with how best to optimize your training and how the ammo is going to change your performance. I’m going to eventually do the same with my 18”, 16” in 13.9” rifles to see the differences.

Outstanding content, and so very clearly presented. You are a pro!

Thank you for confirming me never wanting to use 223 ammo. I didn't realize the difference would be that great but glad I've always picked up 5.56 loads. Once again amazing work and it's getting weird, kinda like you're reading my mind with these comparisons.

Looking forward to the next installments in the series. Great content! Clear, Concise, & Comprehensive!

I'm amazed at how much difference in drop there was between .223 and 5.56 ammo. I would have guessed maybe 4-6 inches not 11+ inches.

Love this content. Something most other guntubers don’t even come near to delivering.

Man you keep it simple and super informative without showing off for 3 minutes of how good a shooter you are, shooting 200 rounds a minute faster than Billy the Kid. To a Channel like this I will subscribe 👍🏽

Great help in setting up my 11.5 & 14.5. Thanks.

It is so nice to see someone with a 'Griffin Armament' !!

Just one of the best gun guys on you tube seems to answer questions we think about

Another excellent video with the information we need. Demonstrating things helps people conceptualize what's actually happening, not on paper internet theory crafting.

Did you ever mention the twist rate on your barrels? Was mainly curious if it was identical.

Great video mate 👍
Good data, well communicated.
Interesting how much better that Griffin rifle grouped the 5.56 ammo, as well as the flatter trajectory.
My only improvement suggestion is to build yourself a decent sized target frame with some more area for bigger cardboard to de-clutter a bit.
Keep up the great work mate 👍

Awesome break down of the data and what should be represented from both . Keep making valuable content .

Just phenomenal content, hands down some of the best on the internet. Very much appreciate the attention to detail and hard work to ensure everyone is understanding/considering all the subject matter covered.

great info. interesting that the 556 11.5 had less drop than the 223 14.5 at 300 yds. The need for a high pressure fast burning powder optimized for shorter barrels is real. That's what the bi-metal sig 227 fury is all about come to think about it.

Totally digging your channel. It let's me geek out on ballistics and satisfies the scientific method itch I get when trying to spend too much time choosing between good things. Keep up the great work.

Lots of value in this video, thanks for taking the time to get this data!

Outstanding databasing. Ty for your testing regimen of real world data utilizing barrel lengths that so many citizens own. :-)

I love my 14.5. I sold all my others and only run 14.5s now. But I don’t run suppressed so 🤷‍♂️.
Can you do a video on cheap 150 ball vs 168/175 smk and how different it is long range 308

Does zeroing the rifle in prone effect when shooting seated or standing? And also if you zero while seated or standing, does that affect prone-sitting-standing?

Most informative piece of knowledge I had in a long time

Absolutely awesome technical walk through. Thank you

Great video. Very informative. I’d like to see this test with 55gr ammo.

Have you done the same with a 16" barrel and 55gr?

Very informative, as usual. thanks Triple M.

This is the kind of data I’m looking for when I can’t get out to shoot thank you

Love the educational video bro. You helped me make my decision! 🙏🏽

For us science nerds best channel hands down

Sweet video man. Just goes to show how important it is to test your ammo and confirm your data.

I prefer the 100 yard zero with a 16" because all the holds are below the reticle
With other zeroes the POI is on, under, or over at different ranges
From 0-100 it's all height over bore, on at 100, then 100+ all about drop. Simple for my simple mind

Great video. I thought the 36 yard zero was based off of a 55 grain. Would like to see this 36 yard zero using 55 grain and 62 grain green tip.

This is great data collection that will help me in my data collection.

The 36/300 is for a 55 grain and 16" barrel with mid length gas system. The AR needs about 7 1/2" of barrel past the gas port .... according to Eugene Stoner to be reliable for function and dwell time. Sighting in with m855 62 gr at 36 yards then using the 77 gr. will skew your test a little. And you should chronograph each one to see the difference in velocity... which WILL have an affect on your group size and location. I've done these same tests since the 1980s. It's very informative.

This as an incredible video, thank you.

Awesome vid. Would love to see 16" 223 vs 5.56 at different grains/velocities.

Great video. Great execution and display and explanation.

Great video. Keep up the great work.

Thank you.

Straight to the point. Very informative and good to watch. Love your content, do not ruin it during the growth of your channel ☝🏻🥳

Must be the winter winds. been a while since I've seen you out here.

Man I love this channel!

I asked for this 11.5 data and you delivered! I thank you, good sir!

This series ate gold!!

Good stuff. Clear lesson here is know your setup and your ballistics. The 36/300 zero as I learned it was specifically for our issued M4s with 14.5 inch barrels and 62gr M855, which will have a higher velocity than any 77gr OTM out of the same barrel. That being said, the 36/300 doesn’t apply to 77gr as you just proved, it’s more like a 36/225. Your demo shows exactly why any change in ammo or setup requires going back out to the range to verify your data.

Amazing how much difference between the 5.56 vs 223.

In addition to making videos every week for us, he likely has a full-time job unlike the other tact-tards on RUclips who just live off influencer status and paid promotions. Thanks for your hard work in making this channel informative and worthwhile!!

Love your Videos!
3 Inches High at 100 Yards is an Outstanding Battle Zero.

Great video, very informative and enjoyable presentation, thank you!

You should pull out the chrono and do a whole video on Maximum Point Blank Range and how it tweaks your battle zero.
A while back I ran the 'calculator' for MPBR and drop on a 12.5" It's not really a 36-300... more like a 34-2something. (I don't remember)
MPBR is your friend and ammo makes a pretty big difference, specially through a shorter barrel with regular rifle loads.
Having run MPBR over the years I have lost all my love for cartridge dedicated reticles. I'd love some decent red dots or LPVOs with MOA or MIL under the center dot instead of '5.56' drops.
Your videos are great. They should use these in high schools around the nation!

Outstanding work again.

Awesome presentation man! Was a little worried in the beginning the test would get muddled up but you did a great job walking through the results! 💪🏻 One of my favorite channels for hard data analysis 👏🏻

Excellent video! Keep up the awesome work

That’s very interesting, I would not have expected that much difference between .223 and 5.56!

Great test and very informative.
Thanks Brother.

For the valuable content you present to your audience on this platform I had to subscribe!

Handy video with good data, thanks!

A lot of variables in this. The 36 yard zero was designed for a 20 inch barrel using M855 or M193. With that in mind your results make perfect sense and are what I would expect to see. My 16 inch barrel isn't to far off for the 36 yard zero with M193 but it does need trueing at 300.

I love all the detail!

wow this is great info. Thanks for doing the hard work.

Great work as usual, thank you.

Great data sir!

Good stuff. Didn’t surprise much.